Rather than discussing another hand where I lost, let me show you where I made a mistake and did not maximize my profit on a superior hand. This occurred on Tuesday night, and against a guy who had loaned me enough money to get back in the game when I'd been busted out, so maybe it's better that I didn't maximize from a spiritual standpoint.
It's late and I've been down and finally started to make a comeback. I was catching the deck. I'd had AA and AKs in the last four hands when I looked down to AKo in the big blind. I thought I was under the gun and reached for chips, and then realized it wasn't my turn. I played it off like I was just preventing a raise with a marginal hand with my misplay, as if it were just a ruse and actually just checked to the flop. The flop was QJT rainbow. The small blind bet out six, and I just hesitatingly called, hoping for callers after me, and hoping to let the small blind think he was in command of the hand. The turn made two of a suit, and the small blind bet another six. I wasn't worried since I didn't put him on a flush draw since he bet out on the turn, so I called again. The river was a blank give me the nuts, and the small blind bet again. Earlier in the game I'd changed a green chip saying they were bad luck for me since every time I'd had one previously in the night I'd lost. When this situation came up I had a green chip I'd won in a previous pot, so I threw in the six and the green chip, making a little speech about how they were bad luck for me, so I might as well throw it in. I was raising twenty-five into a thirty-four dollar pot. I should leave the speech-making to Anthony. Rather than indicating the nonchalance about the amount that I bet that I hoped it would, I think my speech communicated my cheerfullness, and to my opponent cheerfulness was probably coming from the strength of my hand. My opponent folded his top pair. With the nuts in this position the minimum raise should have been a no-brainer. Let him re-raise me if he has a strong hand, and let him pay me off if he only has a medium hand. Any hand that he can call a twenty-fiove dollar raise with he has a fair chance of raising a six dollar re-raise with, and if he doesn't have a hand that good, he might still pay me off for six more dollars. I got greedy, and it probably cost me that last bet. Analyzed more deeply, a twelve dollar raise might have been optimum, so as to disguise the value bet but still offer him 4 to 1 odds while making him think I was trying to force him out.
By the way, the post below is also new, so don't ignore it if you've been here recently.
It's late and I've been down and finally started to make a comeback. I was catching the deck. I'd had AA and AKs in the last four hands when I looked down to AKo in the big blind. I thought I was under the gun and reached for chips, and then realized it wasn't my turn. I played it off like I was just preventing a raise with a marginal hand with my misplay, as if it were just a ruse and actually just checked to the flop. The flop was QJT rainbow. The small blind bet out six, and I just hesitatingly called, hoping for callers after me, and hoping to let the small blind think he was in command of the hand. The turn made two of a suit, and the small blind bet another six. I wasn't worried since I didn't put him on a flush draw since he bet out on the turn, so I called again. The river was a blank give me the nuts, and the small blind bet again. Earlier in the game I'd changed a green chip saying they were bad luck for me since every time I'd had one previously in the night I'd lost. When this situation came up I had a green chip I'd won in a previous pot, so I threw in the six and the green chip, making a little speech about how they were bad luck for me, so I might as well throw it in. I was raising twenty-five into a thirty-four dollar pot. I should leave the speech-making to Anthony. Rather than indicating the nonchalance about the amount that I bet that I hoped it would, I think my speech communicated my cheerfullness, and to my opponent cheerfulness was probably coming from the strength of my hand. My opponent folded his top pair. With the nuts in this position the minimum raise should have been a no-brainer. Let him re-raise me if he has a strong hand, and let him pay me off if he only has a medium hand. Any hand that he can call a twenty-fiove dollar raise with he has a fair chance of raising a six dollar re-raise with, and if he doesn't have a hand that good, he might still pay me off for six more dollars. I got greedy, and it probably cost me that last bet. Analyzed more deeply, a twelve dollar raise might have been optimum, so as to disguise the value bet but still offer him 4 to 1 odds while making him think I was trying to force him out.
By the way, the post below is also new, so don't ignore it if you've been here recently.
posted by Brinton at 11:50 AM
3 Comments:
I personally would have played the hand a little different. Upto the Turn I agree. I couldn't put him on the flush draw that just hit on the turn but he does have enough to bet $6 on the flop so maybe we can dig a whole for him. Try to convince him to represent the hand I know he doesn;t have. I have the nut straight right now and I know he doesn't have a flush draw. So if the flush hits on the river I want him to represent the flush to me. If it doesn't, I want him to raise to me thinking that I will fold because I just missed.
I would have represented the flush draw by raising his bet about $6. I also would try to act overly happy with my hand after the turn. Especially if the turn was low so if it looked like i had paired that turn, it wouldn't threaten his possible pair. A small $6-8 bet should'nt really threaten the bettor because he should be pretty aware at this point(if you did your acting right) that you are ONLY on a draw here OR you have only turned a pair. So he will surely call with any other pair.
Now when the flush misses on the river he is guaranteed to bet at you seeing that he knows you are setting there with a busted hand. Any hand he has would have you beat, he thinks. Even a good bluff from him. So he'll bet about $25-$50 depending on his hand. But then you push. If he has a hand you should get paid off.
If you can sell that bettor on your flush draw on the turn and if he truly had a $6 post-flopped hand, then you couldv'e raked a much bigger pot if played slightly different.
Speeches don't always work. But when they do, they ussually make for a big chip swing. Some of the biggest calls and even raises that I have persuaded other players into committing have been the result of a good performance.
You probably should leave the acting to the professionals.
BTW... Better postings... The discussion is better. If only others would join in.
-TheGreek
I don't feel the minimum raise on the turn would have represented a flush draw or bottom pair. It would have indicated at worst a flush draw with a pair. He knows that I'm not going to raise unless I'm either ahead or likely to be ahead at the end or trying to get him out. A min raise isn't trying to get him out, with eighteen already in the pot, for him to call six for twenty-four, so he has to figure I'm betting for value. A flush draw at the turn has no equity to bet, so I think he has to assume I either have that draw backed up, or else I've made two pair and I'm value betting him. Also, he knows me well enough to doubt my sincerity if I'm acting overly happy about turning a pair with three overs on the board. It's possible he might put me on a Kx of the flush suit, for the two way draw, but that's only the best case scenario, and I'd still only have 18 outs (counting the three kings) and be unlikely to show strength with that hand, since I can only get paid off if I hit, and only then if he bets into me on the river. It's also possible that it looks like I might have middle pair and a draw and hope to get him to check into me on the river so I can show him down with middle pair if I don't hit and bet if I do, but I think that's the least likely thing he'll think.
With the hand he ended up having (top pair and medium kicker) I think when he gets min raised on the turn he calls and then checks the river. If on the river I bet he'll probably call, but only a small amount. He might be thinking at this point that I was setting him up to fold on the river when I made a large bet, but he's a cautious player and that strategy might have actually worked with what he was holding if I in fact had not had a hand, and so he would fold to any bet approaching the size of the pot and maybe for less.
The net result would likely have been the same if I had raised six on the flop, regardless of what I was holding, and was a result of what he was holding. By checking on the turn and letting him bet into me on the river, I felt that I gained the advantage of delay in showing the value of my hand. It forced him to make a quicker emotional adjustment, which I feel throws some players off. If they're allowed to think they're ahead all the way through, they'll be more likely to call a raise on the end, especially when it looks like someone might have a small hand that backed into a draw, busted and is now trying to steal. I just felt like I had more options at the river by checking the turn. I think I chose the wrong option in the end, but I think the maximum equity option was still available to me by checking the turn. I may try it your way in the future though, just to test the theory, especially against a weaker player.
The minimum bet would need to be altered slightly depending on your table image as well as the raisers image. But I think with the correct size bet, and the correct speech, you could have controlled the hand completely while giving the other guy the feeling that he was in control.
-TheGreek
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